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 Warrior's Kingdom: The Silver Circle and the Accursed Trinity

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PostSubject: Warrior's Kingdom: The Silver Circle and the Accursed Trinity   Fri Jul 18, 2014 5:28 am

First topic message reminder :

Alright, so I've been talking this thing up for a while now, I may as well divulge some details.

I don't want to give away the entire plot right now, but essentially, this would be Cipher entering a video game-like setting. Through unknown means, a good chunk of Cipher is sent off to an entirely different world, where they get caught up in a conflict that could put their lives (or even their world) at great risk.

Yeah, kind of a hammy description, but that's basically what it is. :v

They'd be split up into groups and scattered around the new world, facing RPG-fare monsters, odd creatures known as Bits, and a certain group of powerful knights that have it out for them for some reason. Yep, this is the plot that requires the knights I've requested of some of you. I'll share some more details about them soon. I will say though, I want you to treat them as their own characters. Hell, if you wanted to you could ship them or kill them off if you wanted to.

The Elias siblings (meaning June, July and Auggie) and the family in general are gonna be pretty important in this arc. In fact, those siblings are pretty much the driving point of the plot. Again, I don't wanna divulge too many details, though I will at least they'll be absent for a fair portion of the plot.

Also thinking there'd be a "life" system in place. Everyone gets 3 'lives', meaning they can come back to life twice after dying. If they lose the last one, they'll die for good!
Spoiler:
 

A Player system would also be in place, splitting characters up into PCs (aka the characters that will actually be participating in plot events), NPCs (AKA anyone who would be caught in the world transportation but be stripped of their powers/memories and thus unable to participate) or Rivals (AKA those brainwashed to fight against other Cipher members and must be defeated to be brought back to normal). This would be mostly to explain how most of Cipher could be transported but not forcing you all to play anyone you don't want to. It could also make for interesting situations so nyeh. :v

Obviously this is in the planning stages still, but what do you all think? Interested? Any questions? I'll be editing the OP as things go, probably.

(Also for those not in the know, I've got the basics of each knight written down in my Minor Characters page.)
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PostSubject: Re: Warrior's Kingdom: The Silver Circle and the Accursed Trinity   Tue Apr 21, 2015 12:19 am

Zerdark wrote:
First point seems fine to me. I'm not sure if this was established or not, but are we onscreening that attack and the actual transition from Cipher to Adonia, or just starting in Adonia with that attack as backstory? Honestly kind of hoping for the second one for reasons I'd rather not get into now.

Second plot point discussed seems interesting and I really wonder how that's going to play out. King possessed? Blackmailed? Impostor?  I'm questioning how Zerdark will feel about this too...

Third point seems fine to me.

First time I'm hearing of this fourth point and it's an interesting one. It could help with the Team Magma plot depending on where they fall in the grand scheme of things. They could blame the shadow creatures on the outsiders depending on when they both started showing up.


So now we seem to have how they get to Adonia sorted out. Question now I think is what happens once they are there in terms of this plot. I don't know what Zero's main goal is or what he'd be doing, so I don't really have any ideas on this. From the sounds of it, no one would even remember the guy anyway until he did something in Adonia. Do you have any ideas planned for that?

1. I suppose it depends on what people wanna do, though I sorta feel like actually showing it would make it feel more 'complete', I dunno .-.

2. Given how many are tied to him already, I figure this could make for some interesting conversations.

3. k

4. At roughly the same time, I'd assume.

Lao-ShanTux wrote:
First point is fine and all, though the method of occurence might be a little less dramatic. No idea why the machine is there, unless to cover some technicality.

Second point is fine and dandy, and could create some subplots even apart from the overall conflict between characters. Y'know, freedom v security debate and all that.

Third point is alright. Some characters might wig out, though. :v

Fourth point is something I'm pretty okay with. I'm a sucker for 'unnatural abominations suddenly roaming around' and it gives me in particular something to work with, such as giving ARK a secondary purpose.

1. *shrug* It was the first idea I had concerning the method. If you guys got better ones I'd gladly hear them out Razz

2. Yupyup.

3. I figure :0

4. Woo.

Rideps1 wrote:
My only concern is on the three Eliases, what exactly they won't remember.

Otherwise es gut.

Pretty much everything about themselves is gone at first apart from names, although at some point probably early on they'd remember a few more things. Memories (in Adonia, of course) would fully recover some time in the future.

Rockman47 wrote:
1) This is an interesting concept but the most problem I have is Lelouch's motivation for blowing the gate up and the machine.

2) This idea can lead up to a bigger plot arc that can provoke many characters to develop in a certain way.

3) I am guessing that this where the other Outsiders are also slumped in. Otherwise, I have nothing that would echo other statements.

4) Dem Shadows. Though, having a common enemy in this realm can be quite useful in the grand scheme of things.

1. IT'S A SECRET TO EVERYONE.

2. Well technically all this is a bigger plot arc, I just have to try and fit the pieces together Razz

3. You mean wouldn't there, I assume :0
Anyways, it might be, although there are a few minor differences from those three and Outsiders.

4. I wholly admit I took inspiration from the Heartless for the creatures themselves, and the whole grab n drag thing from ICO .-.
Originally I thought I would call them something like Bytes as a small dumb tech reference, though since the relevant plot point is probably gonna have to be retooled... .-.
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PostSubject: Re: Warrior's Kingdom: The Silver Circle and the Accursed Trinity   Tue Apr 21, 2015 12:26 am

SmashBasher123 wrote:
Zerdark wrote:
First point seems fine to me. I'm not sure if this was established or not, but are we onscreening that attack and the actual transition from Cipher to Adonia, or just starting in Adonia with that attack as backstory? Honestly kind of hoping for the second one for reasons I'd rather not get into now.

Second plot point discussed seems interesting and I really wonder how that's going to play out. King possessed? Blackmailed? Impostor?  I'm questioning how Zerdark will feel about this too...

Third point seems fine to me.

First time I'm hearing of this fourth point and it's an interesting one. It could help with the Team Magma plot depending on where they fall in the grand scheme of things. They could blame the shadow creatures on the outsiders depending on when they both started showing up.


So now we seem to have how they get to Adonia sorted out. Question now I think is what happens once they are there in terms of this plot. I don't know what Zero's main goal is or what he'd be doing, so I don't really have any ideas on this. From the sounds of it, no one would even remember the guy anyway until he did something in Adonia. Do you have any ideas planned for that?

1. I suppose it depends on what people wanna do, though I sorta feel like actually showing it would make it feel more 'complete', I dunno .-.

2. Given how many are tied to him already, I figure this could make for some interesting conversations.

3. k

4. At roughly the same time, I'd assume.

1. Even so, I'd really rather not. I honestly just don't want to see it and I don't want to take part in it either. It's not that it's bad. Just...personal reasons.

2. It could. Though depending on how bad the king is acting, and Zerdark's personality and ideals coupled with what he stood for in his past life as well as his current position...it's going to take all of my self control to not have Zerdark overthrow him. I can just attribute his lack of action on that front to past loyalty, current loyalty to the other members of the royal family, and his reluctance to drag his family into such a thing, but the internal conflict at the very least will be there.

4. In this case, works for Team Magma.

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PostSubject: Re: Warrior's Kingdom: The Silver Circle and the Accursed Trinity   Tue Apr 21, 2015 8:34 am

LEVEL GRINDING WOO *shot*

But yeah, it all looks good. I am kinda curious as to where the Outrealm Gate-blowerupper tech came from. I bet it's that CDi Zelda shopkeeper, he always seemed shifty to me. BOMBS???

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PostSubject: Re: Warrior's Kingdom: The Silver Circle and the Accursed Trinity   Tue Apr 21, 2015 8:55 am

Delicious_Fsteak wrote:
LEVEL GRINDING WOO *shot*

But yeah, it all looks good. I am kinda curious as to where the Outrealm Gate-blowerupper tech came from. I bet it's that CDi Zelda shopkeeper, he always seemed shifty to me. BOMBS???

BOOBS!!!

but yeah as I'm pretty sure I said in chat all looks good

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PostSubject: Re: Warrior's Kingdom: The Silver Circle and the Accursed Trinity   Tue Apr 21, 2015 8:45 pm

S'all good to me.

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PostSubject: Re: Warrior's Kingdom: The Silver Circle and the Accursed Trinity   Wed Apr 29, 2015 5:44 am

It's been a few days, so I'd like to attempt to revive discussion for the sake of progress. That and it's currently 4 in the morning and I can't sleep, so perfect opportunity for me to write down my thoughts and hopefully wake up in the morning to comments reassuring me of certain things I'm honestly very concerned about.


First point I'd like to bring up is one I brought up earlier in this topic actually, so yay relevancy. Are we going to onscreen the transition from Cipher to Adonia? By which I mean, are we writing out the whole attack on Cipher and everything being destroyed and stuff? Smash said it depends on what people wanna do and no one said anything on the subject, so I'd like to bring that up again. I'm personally against it and would rather we just start in Adonia with all those events as backstory. If you want to know my reasons, read the spoilers. Putting them in spoilers for those that understandably don't want to hear me whine like a little bitch.

Spoiler:
 

Second point I'd like to discuss is the map and geography. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think cities still need to be placed and stuff. If so, I kinda have to ask why that hasn't been done yet. At this point, I'm willing to do it myself if I have to. I'd need someone to edit the map again to make it look nicer, but I can at the very least mark where shit goes if needed. Just give me a list of places that need to be placed and I'll do my best. I just want it done so we can mark it off the list. We can worry about making it look pretty later. As far as I know, no one's been eager to do it yet, so do you guys want me to just do it? I've figured out how to use paint, so yay me, I can perform a basic human function now.


This next point is very important for the story, characters, and power balance issues. As Smash pointed out earlier, The King will, for some reason or other, be making very strange decisions. One could argue those decisions betray his people. The problem we need to discuss is that Zerdark is someone who would argue that. Under normal circumstances, that would be all fine and dandy. But Zerdark is in a unique position as The Spymaster. A man with his resources could potentially overthrow The King if he wanted to. This is a big problem. Zerdark isn't supposed to lead this world. I think we argued that was one of the problems of the original story that we're trying to move past. So Zerdark overthrowing The King would be a very big no no. Let me emphasize that I am not saying Zerdark should be the next king and I'm not trying to gain more power, so calm down. However, that would be in character. The King making decisions against his own people would anger Zerdark. He'd see that as a betrayal against the country he's supposed to be leading, and the one Zerdark has served faithfully for decades. One of the worst possible betrayals in his mind. Regardless of whether or not we allow him to do such a thing, Zerdark would be a very angry and conflicted man. So I need to ask some questions about the plot, and get your guys' opinions on how I can make Zerdark chill.


1: Is there a plan involving The King? Meaning, is he going to die? If so, who's going to replace him? If not, what the hell is happening to The King to make him do this?

2: You're all probably VERY against the idea of Zerdark overthrowing The King and for good reason, so I need opinions on what can make a man like Zerdark not go with his instincts to do such a thing. I considered loyalty to his kingdom, but he'd see The King as a traitor at this point and he'd consider himself a hero. My main idea is that Zerdark thinks about it, and stays his hand ONLY because he doesn't want to drag Robin into his shenanigans. His kids would be fully grown and out of the house, so he probably doesn't need to worry about dragging them into it, but Robin always supports Zerdark. So I was thinking he doesn't go through with it purely so she isn't dragged into things.

3: I had one other idea that I need your opinions on in the event my first idea isn't enough. Instead of rebelling, Zerdark simply resigns in shame of the man he once served. Depending on how the plot goes, it could be temporary should a new leader reinstate him, or the "real" king comes forward if that's the way the plot goes. I really don't know enough about the plot to make any decisions for my character, so I really need to know.


I really think these things need to be discussed as soon as possible, so please leave your comments and opinions. I need all of your inputs for these serious issues, especially the last one. They've been nagging at me for a while now and the sooner I can put these issues to bed, the better. Thanks for putting up with my shit.

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PostSubject: Re: Warrior's Kingdom: The Silver Circle and the Accursed Trinity   Wed Apr 29, 2015 5:58 am

For most of the points, I will put inputs in the matters. Not because I am afraid to tackle them or anything, but rather lack of information about the subjects. Though, I will put input on one matter, the map. Yes, I do agree that it needs more cities, but if I recall, that the extra additions are getting worked on and the map on the site is not the final product.

Another thing I will put input in is the matter of "chilling" Zerdark. I don't think it will be that simple, the issue of freedom vs security is an issue of perspective, and this plot with the king is running with that very concept. At end of the day, when all the smoke is cleared, the only thing people may end up doing is counting their losses and making sure that the ones they hold dear are okay and alive as it will be a roller coaster of emotions for them.

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PostSubject: Re: Warrior's Kingdom: The Silver Circle and the Accursed Trinity   Wed Apr 29, 2015 11:42 am

Does Zerdark like being a spymaster? Because I imagine that would be somewhat difficult to keep up with when serving as a public figurehead. Even if he's a known spymaster, having to split his time between that and any supposed kingly duties would no doubt be detrimental for everyone involved. Or something. Fishnets?

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PostSubject: Re: Warrior's Kingdom: The Silver Circle and the Accursed Trinity   Wed Apr 29, 2015 11:54 am

That's a valid point. He does enjoy his job very much and it'd be difficult to do that AND be king. It's hard enough juggling the two lives he has already. That bit of self interest and protecting Robin may be enough to stay his hand. Then again in the worst case scenario where he does stage a coup, he could put someone else on the throne instead of himself. Question then would be who, though I'm assuming we want to avoid this scenario entirely.

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PostSubject: Re: Warrior's Kingdom: The Silver Circle and the Accursed Trinity   Wed Apr 29, 2015 6:25 pm

Firstly, it personally won't affect me if the transition is onscreen, but not having to write a ton of exposition that'd be sorta moot IMO would be nice. Don't kill me for saying moot, please.

Secondly, Zerdark becoming king...

I guess the idea of not wanting to drag his wife in and not wanting yet another life to balance would be good enough reason. On the topic of him rebelling, but ceding the throne, I unfortunately don't have any suggestions to whom it should go.

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PostSubject: Re: Warrior's Kingdom: The Silver Circle and the Accursed Trinity   Wed Apr 29, 2015 6:42 pm

I think writing out the transition is unnecessary in addition to my other feelings by the way.

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PostSubject: Re: Warrior's Kingdom: The Silver Circle and the Accursed Trinity   Wed Apr 29, 2015 7:02 pm

Why are we bothering with discussing who the kingship would go to if we've already decided that the overthrow will not happen?
Just figure out the reasons to not overthrow, don't bother with going more in-depth past 'will it work', please.

That said, overthrowing a king creates quite a hellish political clime. It's like getting a new teacher that does things the exact opposite way as the last, though not quite in that scale. But it creates a large amount of unnecessary turmoil, and then there's the fact that a coup can easily take lives, and those lives may not be the kind you want to take. Random soldier who feeds a family or something. Either way, the hassle and consequences are major.

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PostSubject: Re: Warrior's Kingdom: The Silver Circle and the Accursed Trinity   Wed Apr 29, 2015 7:10 pm

Lao-ShanTux wrote:
Either way, the hassle and consequences are major.

Exactly why I needed to bring it up. Though some good points were raised and I think it may be enough to prevent it.

Now if there are no more opinions on that subject, how about the others I brought up?

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PostSubject: Re: Warrior's Kingdom: The Silver Circle and the Accursed Trinity   Thu Apr 30, 2015 2:05 am

Zerdark wrote:
It's been a few days, so I'd like to attempt to revive discussion for the sake of progress. That and it's currently 4 in the morning and I can't sleep, so perfect opportunity for me to write down my thoughts and hopefully wake up in the morning to comments reassuring me of certain things I'm honestly very concerned about.


First point I'd like to bring up is one I brought up earlier in this topic actually, so yay relevancy. Are we going to onscreen the transition from Cipher to Adonia? By which I mean, are we writing out the whole attack on Cipher and everything being destroyed and stuff? Smash said it depends on what people wanna do and no one said anything on the subject, so I'd like to bring that up again. I'm personally against it and would rather we just start in Adonia with all those events as backstory. If you want to know my reasons, read the spoilers. Putting them in spoilers for those that understandably don't want to hear me whine like a little bitch.

Spoiler:
 

The thing is, I personally feel as though the story and what Zero does would lose a bit of its touch if it isn't personally shown, and it'd come off as a bit of an abrupt change. Hell, why even have a transition at all if it's not gonna be shown? But I digress, I dunno what other people think. If people don't wanna show it, it doesn't HAVE to be shown. :V

Second point I'd like to discuss is the map and geography. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think cities still need to be placed and stuff. If so, I kinda have to ask why that hasn't been done yet. At this point, I'm willing to do it myself if I have to. I'd need someone to edit the map again to make it look nicer, but I can at the very least mark where shit goes if needed. Just give me a list of places that need to be placed and I'll do my best. I just want it done so we can mark it off the list. We can worry about making it look pretty later. As far as I know, no one's been eager to do it yet, so do you guys want me to just do it? I've figured out how to use paint, so yay me, I can perform a basic human function now.

I've been waiting on other people to input their own ideas for towns and things since the first few ones were all mine but almost no one's really contributed much in that regard so :0

If you think you got some good town ideas or see some good spots for them, feel free to mark them.



This next point is very important for the story, characters, and power balance issues. As Smash pointed out earlier, The King will, for some reason or other, be making very strange decisions. One could argue those decisions betray his people. The problem we need to discuss is that Zerdark is someone who would argue that. Under normal circumstances, that would be all fine and dandy. But Zerdark is in a unique position as The Spymaster. A man with his resources could potentially overthrow The King if he wanted to. This is a big problem. Zerdark isn't supposed to lead this world. I think we argued that was one of the problems of the original story that we're trying to move past. So Zerdark overthrowing The King would be a very big no no. Let me emphasize that I am not saying Zerdark should be the next king and I'm not trying to gain more power, so calm down. However, that would be in character. The King making decisions against his own people would anger Zerdark. He'd see that as a betrayal against the country he's supposed to be leading, and the one Zerdark has served faithfully for decades. One of the worst possible betrayals in his mind. Regardless of whether or not we allow him to do such a thing, Zerdark would be a very angry and conflicted man. So I need to ask some questions about the plot, and get your guys' opinions on how I can make Zerdark chill.


1: Is there a plan involving The King? Meaning, is he going to die? If so, who's going to replace him? If not, what the hell is happening to The King to make him do this?

2: You're all probably VERY against the idea of Zerdark overthrowing The King and for good reason, so I need opinions on what can make a man like Zerdark not go with his instincts to do such a thing. I considered loyalty to his kingdom, but he'd see The King as a traitor at this point and he'd consider himself a hero. My main idea is that Zerdark thinks about it, and stays his hand ONLY because he doesn't want to drag Robin into his shenanigans. His kids would be fully grown and out of the house, so he probably doesn't need to worry about dragging them into it, but Robin always supports Zerdark. So I was thinking he doesn't go through with it purely so she isn't dragged into things.

3: I had one other idea that I need your opinions on in the event my first idea isn't enough. Instead of rebelling, Zerdark simply resigns in shame of the man he once served. Depending on how the plot goes, it could be temporary should a new leader reinstate him, or the "real" king comes forward if that's the way the plot goes. I really don't know enough about the plot to make any decisions for my character, so I really need to know.

1. He will remain alive and likely in power, and the affliction is temporary. As for the cause... It's a secret, although it'll probably be made obvious in some way given my writing quality :V

2/3. Well, at first the king wouldn't be outright evil, but he would certainly make some questionable choices that go against his usual nature. He wouldn't make a downright villainous order until later on. My intent is sort of that most of the people that work directly under him continue doing so for a while specifically because his usually benevolent and dutiful nature have earned him their loyalty and support, but as things go on it becomes increasingly obvious something is up.


I really think these things need to be discussed as soon as possible, so please leave your comments and opinions. I need all of your inputs for these serious issues, especially the last one. They've been nagging at me for a while now and the sooner I can put these issues to bed, the better. Thanks for putting up with my shit.

I actually do have my own little mini-rant-thing I'd like to bring up someplace, might as well do it here; The heck is with the lack of feedback recently? Almost any time anyone posts anything, there's either very little or no response whatsoever from anyone. Hell, back in the Cipher days, I linked to a new bio during active chat and got like literally no response at all. I know it feels like I'm just bitching here, but when someone posts a new thing, especially now during this time when we're planning and setting up a complete reboot and are all stumbling around, it'd be nice to know that people care about and have no issues with whatever you do. I know not saying anything could also indicate people have no problem with it, but when EVERYONE is silent, it comes across as people not giving a shit about what you do. I understand that people have been busy recently, but going like weeks without any response apart from any relevant parties kinda makes you feel like shit, especially if you put a lot of effort into it. :/

I'm not saying it has to be anything super elaborate or anything either. Literally just a simple "Looks good." or "Nice bio." in chat or something is enough to let people know you read their thing and are cool with it. But nothing? It just kinda gives off the impression even more that people are starting to lose interest in doing this, and it makes me sad. I know I'm being a bit hypocritical and all here since I don't respond to EVERYthing, but come on, guys. We're getting close to making this place fun and active beyond the chatbox (well, active some of the time at least) again, and yet we haven't made much of any progress at all recently (I'm including myself in this). Like I said, I understand most people are busy with work/school/other shit, and I don't expect anyone to be here 24/7 and contribute a ton of things, but every little bit helps, and although we're a small community here, we gotta all pitch in to make this work. :0

/long and tangential bitchy rant
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Zerdark
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PostSubject: Re: Warrior's Kingdom: The Silver Circle and the Accursed Trinity   Thu Apr 30, 2015 2:17 am

I think we all needed to hear that honestly, and some of those points you made are what I've been thinking. Hell, I broke down and started crying about it last night. We really need to start doing stuff and make real tangible progress and finally make this place active again.

Like I said before, if part of that is the map, I'll do it myself if I have to. I just want to get started.


Also Smash, I understand why you want to show the transition, but I still personally don't want to do it. Honestly if I had my way, there'd be no transition and it'd just be a new story without the terrible ending to the Cipher Empire. Like I said though, if you want to do it, that's fine. I just want no part of it. Ask Lana if she wants to play Emperor Zerdark if he's needed.

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Zerdark
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PostSubject: Re: Warrior's Kingdom: The Silver Circle and the Accursed Trinity   Thu Apr 30, 2015 2:27 am

Also if you can give me a list of the places that need to be placed, that'd be great.

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PostSubject: Re: Warrior's Kingdom: The Silver Circle and the Accursed Trinity   Thu Apr 30, 2015 4:02 am

Well, I should make my stance on the transition matter here. I am neutral leaning to no on the situation. Yes, I am interested in trying it out, but I am not willing to have people feel uncomfortable about it. Yeah, sure, this is coming from the guy who has weaponized terrible fanart and uses awful gags, but damn it I have standards!

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PostSubject: Re: Warrior's Kingdom: The Silver Circle and the Accursed Trinity   Thu Apr 30, 2015 9:16 am

Rockman47 wrote:
Yeah, sure, this is coming from the guy who has weaponized terrible fanart and uses awful gags, but damn it I have standards!

LIES

But yeah, I'm obviously neutral on the situation involving the transition, but at this point, if it makes somebody uncomfortable, it'd prolly best be skipped. >_>

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Delicious_Fsteak
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PostSubject: Re: Warrior's Kingdom: The Silver Circle and the Accursed Trinity   Thu Apr 30, 2015 10:45 am

While I'd be fine with skipping the transition, I feel like there still needs to be an intro of some kind, rather than just "BOOM goes the gate, go do stuff". Something to signal where Adonia begins (for us). Something that's hopefully written by a better writer than me :V

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PostSubject: Re: Warrior's Kingdom: The Silver Circle and the Accursed Trinity   Thu Apr 30, 2015 12:12 pm

My personal stance on it is "If people don't want to do the transition then why even bother doing all this in the first place and just call it a reboot?" Neutral

But I digress. >_>

Anyhoo, I'm with Steak in that we at least need something to intro on rather than just plopping everyone everywhere in a confusing jumble, I'm just not sure what yet :0
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Zerdark
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PostSubject: Re: Warrior's Kingdom: The Silver Circle and the Accursed Trinity   Thu Apr 30, 2015 12:29 pm

I'd personally be fine with just a reboot for the sake of a better ending to the Cipher Empire beyond my pretending, but it'd be a shame to throw out your plot entirely. Since you're the master of your plot, you could write a summary of what happened to that world and where everyone was thrown to along with what lives they have now if they aren't outsiders.

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