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Delicious_Fsteak
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PostSubject: Stat discussion   Thu Jan 29, 2015 11:23 pm



This is the stat sheet in its current state. I figured a topic discussing what each stat actually affects (broadly in ways that apply to everyone, character-specific stuff should be listed in bios). I feel like each stat needs to affect characters both in terms of combat and outside of it, since not all characters will be combat-based. This leads me to my first point; the magic stats. I've discussed this with Aeo and we agree that they should be called something else, because as it stands characters who don't ever plan on using magic can set them both to terrible and not suffer at all for it. I've thought about it myself and the only thing I could come up with is spirit, which is terrible and has the exact same issue :v

Secondly, I was thinking some things could be affected by multiple stats, my reasoning being that being a it would be a little odd for a mage who has never been in the vicinity of a forge to be able to craft a decent armor because they also happen to be able to brew potions. For example, specifically in regards to crafting, forging could be affected by both craft and strength while alchemy could be craft and intelligence. Thoughts?

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Laonoone
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PostSubject: Re: Stat discussion   Thu Jan 29, 2015 11:40 pm

Multi-stat abilities and that sort sounds like a good idea.

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Zerdark
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PostSubject: Re: Stat discussion   Thu Jan 29, 2015 11:59 pm

Well with constitution, that could affect a character's resistance to sickness. A person with a weak constitution is a lot more likely to get sick and fall prey to diseases. They may also be more vulnerable to poisons. Even non combat people could benefit from a high constitution.

As for willpower...I'm not sure. If this were a video game, I'd suggest maybe a buff in experience gain or something. Or maybe a buff to all skills equal to the level of willpower. A lesser or lower willpower granting a debuff in all skills. For example, a blacksmith lacking the willpower to forge a sword won't be crafting anything legendary anytime soon.



As for ATK magic and Support magic...I'm not sure. Though I suggest maybe grouping those two into one stat. Maybe call it "Magical Affinity". This could affect your spells and such as normal, but it could also affect a persons ability to use magitek related things. For example, someone with a terrible magical affinity might have no idea how to use whatever we're calling the device that lets people talk over long distances. Hell, they might just cause it to explode. If they try to drive a magitek vehicle, they'll most likely crash it...or cause it to explode. They might also find it difficult to get along with animals with magical affinity...or cause them to explode *shot*

/ideas are prolly stupid but is all I got

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Laonoone
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PostSubject: Re: Stat discussion   Fri Jan 30, 2015 12:00 am

Maaaaybe we should try to keep this less complicated. Citing that these are mostly a guideline.

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PostSubject: Re: Stat discussion   Fri Jan 30, 2015 12:03 am

I will admit that I would prefer not overcomplicating it, yeah. :0
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Zerdark
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PostSubject: Re: Stat discussion   Fri Jan 30, 2015 12:05 am

Well I've got no other ideas. In this case, I just say screw it and let the non combat classes have the extra skill points to work with. If they get robbed by a rogue mage tho, they're kinda fucked.

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PostSubject: Re: Stat discussion   Fri Jan 30, 2015 12:19 am

One stat doesn't work in all cases, though. As I've already discussed at length with Aeo since I was trying to do the same thing.

Just because someone's a good healer, doesn't mean they can do offensive magic very well. Also doesn't mean that just not knowing the other sort of magic is going to be enough.

Plus, physical has a Str/Dex split, which is largely similar. Give the different class types the same things to work with, and all that. Constitution is physical resistance, willpower is mental/magical resistance.
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PostSubject: Re: Stat discussion   Fri Jan 30, 2015 12:30 am

Well, I tried. I have nothing else to add to the stat things, so.....lemons.

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PostSubject: Re: Stat discussion   Fri Jan 30, 2015 7:55 pm

Alright so, I pointed this out in the chat but I wanted to go ahead and put it here for reference. Even though I was originally the one who helped to create the base for the stats, and pushed for them to be put in place, after giving it a lot of thought...I feel like this system is too restrictive and it makes things too perfect. To put it plain...a veteran knight will not always be the same as someone who just got out there and started doing things. I know that I originally described how that would work. However, after seeing everyone work together to pick through and evolve ideas...I feel we should just talk among each other and discuss things. I of all people understand the need for order, and I understand the fear of not having some...as that was part of the Cipher problem. I also know that the more we build a box around ourselves, the harder to think outside of it...it will be. There will not longer be room for uniqueness, and individuality. I understand the point that if we need to we could "work around" the stats for our ideas...but if we are just going to be discussing it all anyway, I see no reason for us to not trust each other on this. I understand the worry..I mean I was the one pushing for this originally. But after seeing you all work together, and get so excited, and actually serious about this stuff, I am now MORE worried about stifling that under needless restrictions. I feel that we can trust each other to make the right choices. We've all grown and come a long way from when we first started here, even me and I have not been here near as long. Hun bun has taught me a very important lesson since I have been with her. I used to be worried about being perfect. She taught me that...if I was perfect, it would be boring. I think that applies to this too. If we worry at this stage, about making everything too perfect, then when we come to a head and finally have everything made...we'll have this perfectly stream lined world that we already understand everything about. Everyone will be completely equal...and so there will be no room for strife...or conflict, nothing to overcome, and no room for growth. We have to remember that the world around us needs as much room to grow as we do..or else it gets boring. My idea...is that we put the stats on the back burner for now...we be mature about things...and we do as we have been doing. We talk among each other and decide what is right that way...allowing us a little breathing room. If we need to implement stats, I would be open to that. If people decide they already want to stick to the stats I guess that is ok too. However I think we have earned a little breathing room, and a little room to trust each other to make the right choices. I know the prospect of having things free form like that is a little scary. However if there is nothing left to surprise us...what is the point of the creativity we have?

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Delicious_Fsteak
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PostSubject: Re: Stat discussion   Fri Jan 30, 2015 9:08 pm

I understand what you're getting at, but I don't think just discarding stats is the right solution. In order for this to be enjoyed by everybody, every character needs to have the same opportunities, if that makes sense, but there also needs to be restrictions because otherwise I'm certain, regardless of our intentions, there will be a power creep thing going on eventually just like with Cipher, albeit not on the same scale.

My main issue with what you're saying is that you're completely disregarding personality and plot, which are far more important. It's who these people are that makes us care about them, not what they are. Stats would essentially be a guideline to what someone could potentially be capable of doing, while it's their personality that dictates what they do with said potential. It's also an easy way of tracking progression and growth.

Gah, words are hard... I don't even know what my brain is anymore.

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PostSubject: Re: Stat discussion   Fri Jan 30, 2015 9:19 pm

I understand both sides of this and I can't work out my opinion in a way that makes sense. We need some rein for power levels, maybe not at the beginning, but at some point.

Maybe if the stat system was implicit, with each "stat" having an explanation but not a value. A character who creeps up on OP will not be restrained by a stat system anyways. Unless we use numbers and calculations in battle, even with stats there's room for abuse, so we're already going to need to have faith in each other.

I think if we have a stat page with each stat and an explanation/description of the average ability that comes from each stat, we'd be able to make balanced characters without having to fill each bio with values, necessarily. This would allow room for growth more than a valued system would, and it would still be balanced if the character was created with the "zero" rule in mind.

I'll work out a coherent explanation of my thoughts next week, probably Wednesday.

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PostSubject: Re: Stat discussion   Fri Jan 30, 2015 9:35 pm

Having stats, per se, could simply serve as guidelines. I personally think we should be careful with having too many defining numbers. It could potentially create a sort of... Vacuum. Like the sort that was the hallmark of old Cipher 1.0(TM). Not that it's as likely.. (For reference, old RP topics, Roman numerals)

I guess what I'm saying is, having ability defined by numbers would create too much of a feeling of... X or Y is the pinnacle of physical prowess or what have you. Having them tied to some kind of levels would, in my opinion, be bloody arbitrary(when do you level up, is it a preset for everyone or writer choice. What if it isn't a sort of skill you can exactly measure very well?) and a rigid system would require a few many complexities, and perhaps be difficult for newcomers to grasp (or even we ourselves to fully understand if it got out of hand.)


If I kinda sorta don't make any sense, excuse the rambling. I am sorry.

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PostSubject: Re: Stat discussion   Sun Feb 01, 2015 5:39 pm

After some thinking, I have changed my mind about stats... somewhat. I still think stats should be a thing, but it's prolly for the best if we implement it later on and form it around the way we RP rather than force ourselves to RP in a way that suits the stat system. So yeah, I'm on board now. Yaaay /nobody cares

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PostSubject: Re: Stat discussion   Sun Feb 01, 2015 5:40 pm

Delicious_Fsteak wrote:
After some thinking, I have changed my mind about stats... somewhat. I still think stats should be a thing, but it's prolly for the best if we implement it later on and form it around the way we RP rather than force ourselves to RP in a way that suits the stat system. So yeah, I'm on board now. Yaaay /nobody cares
/cares anyways

I agree about the later implementation of a stat system, should such develop.

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PostSubject: Re: Stat discussion   Sun Feb 01, 2015 5:41 pm

That sounds like a pretty good idea to me. All in favor of Steak?

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PostSubject: Re: Stat discussion   Sun Feb 01, 2015 5:42 pm

Aye!

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PostSubject: Re: Stat discussion   Sun Feb 01, 2015 5:43 pm

I assent.

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PostSubject: Re: Stat discussion   Sun Feb 01, 2015 5:44 pm

That makes sense. I agree that we can implement a stat system later should one be necessary.
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PostSubject: Re: Stat discussion   Sun Feb 01, 2015 6:24 pm

I can work with and without stats but I feel like having some sort of tool to measure something makes things more accessible and easier to grasp. In this case, stats potentially making the RP more accessible for newcomers. That's my cents currently on the topic

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PostSubject: Re: Stat discussion   Sun Feb 01, 2015 6:24 pm

Newcomers?

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PostSubject: Re: Stat discussion   Sun Feb 01, 2015 6:26 pm

Destin von Tod wrote:
Newcomers?

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PostSubject: Re: Stat discussion   Sun Feb 01, 2015 6:45 pm

Spikaya Silver wrote:
Destin von Tod wrote:
Newcomers?

Yes, people other than us who show up and want to join.

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PostSubject: Re: Stat discussion   Sun Feb 01, 2015 6:46 pm

Rand wrote:
Spikaya Silver wrote:
Destin von Tod wrote:
Newcomers?

Yes, people other than us who show up and want to join.

THOSE EXIST?

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PostSubject: Re: Stat discussion   Sun Feb 01, 2015 6:46 pm

Spikaya Silver wrote:
Rand wrote:
Spikaya Silver wrote:
Destin von Tod wrote:
Newcomers?

Yes, people other than us who show up and want to join.

THOSE EXIST?
In all seriousness, I doubt it.

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PostSubject: Re: Stat discussion   Sun Feb 01, 2015 6:47 pm

Yeeaahhh it's not like it hasn't happened before (obviously) but it doesn't seem terribly likely :v

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