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SmashBasher123
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PostSubject: Technology/culture/society discussion   Fri Jan 30, 2015 1:42 pm

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Uh

Not really sure what to write here :0

Discuss any ideas or thoughts you have concerning the technology level of Adonia, things to be done for entertainment, any cultural stuff, etc.

Just for some worldbuilding, mostly. :0
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PostSubject: Re: Technology/culture/society discussion   Sat Feb 28, 2015 7:34 pm

I personally don't like the idea of magic being something tangible. That being said, I do have an idea when it comes to "mining for magic". We could make certain types of already existing metals be better for magic. For instance, I thought it was common in fantasy settings for gold to be useful due to being a good conductor for magic.

So instead of magic itself being found underground, it could be certain types of metals that easily conduct magic, and thus are used in creating magical weapons, batteries, or magitech wires.

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PostSubject: Re: Technology/culture/society discussion   Sat Feb 28, 2015 7:36 pm

Hmm...that could work. Would give a practical reason for gold to be sought after instead of it just being gold.

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PostSubject: Re: Technology/culture/society discussion   Sun Mar 01, 2015 6:07 pm

I'm just going to reiterate.... Mining for magic is just strange.
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PostSubject: Re: Technology/culture/society discussion   Sun Mar 01, 2015 7:07 pm

Farther expanding upon the magic idea, if we do the "certain metal conducts magic better than other things" bit, we could have it so that the metals could be used to draw or focus magical energy better.

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PostSubject: Re: Technology/culture/society discussion   Sun Mar 01, 2015 10:45 pm

The only thing I have to add to the discussion is that we do not need a lyrium equivalent. dat shit nasty

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PostSubject: Re: Technology/culture/society discussion   Wed Mar 04, 2015 1:55 am

Wow, one, Lao I was making a joke at Chris...not tearing him down. I wasn't being rude, I was poking fun. Second none of you seem to grasp the concept I proposed. The idea of Magical Catalysts...not solidified magic, but with ambient magic just in the air...and the world itself...it makes sense for it to leave some kind of residue. It makes sense if this is a world powered by magic...for their to be magic in all things...in the air, in the ground in the water. Magic just sort of saturates the world on the whole, as opposed to just saying "this is magic, and this is where it comes from." The point I was making was that there shouldn't be a single source for magic...but for magic to be in all things. When mages tap into magic, they don't use magic coal. But perhaps having something saturated WITH magic, could work as a catalyst to strengthen said magic, if properly processed. This would enable people of low magical talent, to use everyday magitek, without use of advanced magic.

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PostSubject: Re: Technology/culture/society discussion   Wed Mar 04, 2015 2:00 am

This also explains potion making having magical affects, despite the alchemist not having magical talent. The world of Adonia itself is the source for magic. Drachurst simply has the means to properly utilize it better than some other countries. My idea wasn't mining for magic rocks. It's magic being everywhere..and that happens to be a source for magical catalysts. Things to ENHANCE magic. Such as...dun dun dun, Lyrium from Dragon Age...if anyone has played it. The Templars who used Lyrium to give them the abilities they had..specified it wasn't magic, but something similar. THAT is what I was proposing.

tl;dr: Magic is everywhere, and trying to explain it is useless.

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PostSubject: Re: Technology/culture/society discussion   Wed Mar 04, 2015 4:24 am

To be fair, it was a bit hard to infer you were joking, sowwy :s

In any case, I THINK I understand what you're trying to say (half-asleep right now) and it seems to work pretty ok to me. What do the rest of you think about it?
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PostSubject: Re: Technology/culture/society discussion   Wed Mar 04, 2015 7:56 am

I guess

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PostSubject: Re: Technology/culture/society discussion   Wed Mar 04, 2015 8:38 am

IMO magical residue and stuff would just kinda overcomplicate things. Also, as someone who is going to play an alchemist, I have to disagree with how alchemy works. Alchemy is not actually magic, but when certain ingredients are mixed together they can replicate magical effects.

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PostSubject: Re: Technology/culture/society discussion   Wed Mar 04, 2015 10:27 am

Ok just to clear this up quick: Should magitek stuff require the user actually have at least some magical prowess to use efficiently? How should it work exactly? :v
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PostSubject: Re: Technology/culture/society discussion   Wed Mar 04, 2015 10:29 am

I'm gonna say no. Magitek things were made by those with magic to make life easier for those without.

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PostSubject: Re: Technology/culture/society discussion   Wed Mar 04, 2015 10:30 am

Delicious_Fsteak wrote:
I'm gonna say no. Magitek things were made by those with magic to make life easier for those without.

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PostSubject: Re: Technology/culture/society discussion   Wed Mar 04, 2015 11:44 am

Lao-ShanTux wrote:
Delicious_Fsteak wrote:
I'm gonna say no. Magitek things were made by those with magic to make life easier for those without.

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PostSubject: Re: Technology/culture/society discussion   Wed Mar 04, 2015 1:58 pm

So basically what I am gathering is that there's two ideas. One is magic is in the air (like love *Smacked*) and another that magic in itself is not obtained naturally and requires certain resources. Reading through them properly, I think I would like a mixture of both. Magic, as a source exists everywhere within everything but to make machinery work properly with magitech this magic can be refined and processed with stuff in the world. Maybe magic in this world is unstable and dangerous when soaked in major amounts without the proper procedures.

Ex: Someone needs to replenish their machine's battery for just a while longer. Well, the solution is simple, grab some rocks and branches and squeeze the magic out of them and insert them into the cell. Tadaah, a quick small charge.

Now, for some misc stuff that elaborates on the idea. Living things have a certain amount of magic within them proportional to their size. As they die, their magic begins leaving the creature, plant, etc. at a certain rapid rate. Also, there could be anomalies with living beings sometimes having too much or too little magic and with dead beings retaining magic a fair amount of time after their death, but I am getting sidetracked now.

tl;dr version. Magic is everywhere and be refined into cells or whatever from anything still living or recently dead given the proper equipment

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PostSubject: Re: Technology/culture/society discussion   Wed Mar 04, 2015 2:58 pm

OK so, I just kind of assumed "magic is in everything" would be guaranteed anyway by it being ambient, so maybe that's part of why I wasn't seeing what was being pointed at. The existence of catalysts like this would make some sense, especially considering the term someone else used of "magic magnet". It only makes sense something like that could be used to power things, or maybe to provide energy for spells that you might not normally be able to exert enough force over to control. Maybe, on that last one. I'll touch on that in a bit.

However, I think a lot of simple day to day magitech would probably be able to operate just off the ambient, given that there would be a lot of ambient. Liken it to a calculator and its tiny solar panel. Given that it wasnt made with things that have horrible magic conductivity, it might not need any real catalyst.

So with that in mind I would say catalysts (or at least any that are able to do much of anything) would probably be exceedingly rare, used for top of the line tech without much home purpose.

"The Templars who used Lyrium to give them the abilities they had..specified it wasn't magic, but something similar. THAT is what I was proposing." That is what gives me real pause though. First thought was Magicite, suddenly ability to use summons and minor stat boosts on growth. Then I just naturally progressed to Materia... but I kept thinking and came to Force Metal. Where.... one of the two available Supra Force metals in that game, equipped to a single one of my available characters, allowed me to steamroll the super bosses. I understand that was just am example and you may not be proposing that at all, but with it mentioned I am definitely not just going to ignore it.

Tldr for last paragraph; small magical rocks that can make you stronger lead to dumb power creeps and should be very seriously discussed and leaned away from.
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PostSubject: Re: Technology/culture/society discussion   Wed Mar 04, 2015 3:00 pm

Rockman47 wrote:
Ex: Someone needs to replenish their machine's battery for just a while longer. Well, the solution is simple, grab some rocks and branches and squeeze the magic out of them and insert them into the cell. Tadaah, a quick small charge.

I'm sorry but that sounds really dumb to me.

I can kinda get behind magic in some solid form (like rocks to mine, for example), but it shouldn't be in everything. Personally I'd like it if it was possible to live a completely magic-free life in Adonia. I can see there being people who are averse to magic, even if nobody plays such a character. Like, there could be a city or place or something where magic is outlawed for some reason or another. But what do I know, I'm not a marine biologist.

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PostSubject: Re: Technology/culture/society discussion   Wed Mar 04, 2015 3:09 pm

Black White Oyu wrote:
Lao-ShanTux wrote:
Delicious_Fsteak wrote:
I'm gonna say no. Magitek things were made by those with magic to make life easier for those without.

Mostly this, but I have one other thought. It may take no magic to use, but perhaps it requires someone with magic to maintain? If something breaks, naturally it'll have to be repaired. For something like a train, it would require a magitek engineer on board to ensure proper maintenance. If things like Magitek Armor from Final Fantasy exist, perhaps it takes someone adept at magic to fully utilize its capabilities? A normal soldier could use it, but it would be optimal to have someone skilled in magic pilot the thing.

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PostSubject: Re: Technology/culture/society discussion   Wed Mar 04, 2015 4:28 pm

I do feel there should be some type of 'disadvantage' for mages or 'advantage' for non-magic users, though.

Because the way it is currently mages seem a tad bit OP compared to nonmages :0

Maybe it's just half-asleep me talking though. :h
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PostSubject: Re: Technology/culture/society discussion   Wed Mar 04, 2015 5:21 pm

Here's an idea I totally ripped of from Arcanum: magic and technology being opposites. Basically, magic characters would fumble with tech items and vice versa. This presents a problem in that magic IS the technology here, so there would need to be an alternate, like steam- or clockwork-powered thingies.

I don't know if it's really a good idea but... it's an idea? idkwtfbbqsauce

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PostSubject: Re: Technology/culture/society discussion   Wed Mar 04, 2015 5:35 pm

This got way complicated real quick

The way I see the magic-physical manifestation is that it should stay limited to beings that are magical in nature, and maybe, maybe some catalytic materials that are generally used in magitek. If magical energy is literally being mined, that might as well be coal and petrol under another name, I think. The way I saw it, is like a circuit with capacitors and a solar energy cell, where the cell uses ambient magic to power the object, and the capacitors store what's left over. Better materials make for better efficiency, but not necessarily power. Perhaps there would be 'dead areas' and 'overcharged areas' where the ambient magical energy is different, and here regular magic is either dead or unpredictable and magitek can be a bit more adaptable, or whatever advantages/disadvantages. I can make this more comprehensive if need be, but I don't know if it'll even be approved.
As for the magitek-magic relationship, magitek is usually billed as an aid for those who can't actually use magic. Magitek is basically technology, if technology was made for humans by some kind of magic-using race that doesn't exist on Earth anymore. Magitek is generally limited by the device, whereas magic is like a bunch of fibers that can be woven into different cloths for different spells. On the flipside, magitek is more consistent, while magic is affected more by the world and environment, and both can be interfered with by external factors, like 'magical jamming'. However, as a bit of an advantage for magitek, it's not purely magic, so a 'magic jammer' wouldn't mess with it at all or as much, which would certainly be useful.


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PostSubject: Re: Technology/culture/society discussion   Wed Mar 04, 2015 5:44 pm

SmashBasher123 wrote:
I do feel there should be some type of 'disadvantage' for mages or 'advantage' for non-magic users, though.

Because the way it is currently mages seem a tad bit OP compared to nonmages :0

Maybe it's just half-asleep me talking though. :h

I have an idea. Mages can't draw on the ambient magic, they have to use an innate magic. That causes them right there to prioritize their uses of magic, because if they deplete their innate magic, it's not like MP in games; it has physical effects. Someone who depletes his magic is in a state equivalent to someone who went a week without sleep or food, and needs medical attention.

This idea is underdeveloped because I can't think straight right now. Somebody please help?

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PostSubject: Re: Technology/culture/society discussion   Wed Mar 04, 2015 5:46 pm

Perhaps not so much that they need to use their innate magic as they need to use their own stamina/energy to channel the ambient magic.

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PostSubject: Re: Technology/culture/society discussion   Wed Mar 04, 2015 6:04 pm

Holy wow this is getting complicated. Here are my thoughts on at least one of the issues.

Mages should have to draw from their own innate magical power. Outside of battle, perhaps an experienced mage can draw upon the ambient magical energy to replenish their reserve more quickly, but it takes heavy concentration.

Meanwhile, Magitek Engineers focus on using the ambient energy to power Magitek items. Mages and Magitek Engineers are NOT the same. For instance, you won't be able to ask Zerdark to help maintain a train or operate other heavy machinery that relies on Magitek. And you won't necessarily ask an engineer to fight on the front lines. An engineer's place is maintaining and creating various equipment, not on the front lines.

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PostSubject: Re: Technology/culture/society discussion   Wed Mar 04, 2015 6:11 pm

To speak in terms of technicalities, I feel like the innate energy should be connected to the ambient source somehow, since from my understanding that's supposed to be the 'primary' source.
But those are other words for basically the same mechanic of 'MP-HP relationship'

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